It was mainly because i was worried i would get the codes wrong as it seems very long winded.
I am also a bit worried about the EORI number as I am just a crafter who makes stuff at home and so don’t have a registered building from which i make and sell.
I don’t really know why I am worrying as I don’t sell that much on line - about 20 items last year on E and two this year on E and I have only ever sold three items abroad (one to France and two to the US) 
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At the moment customers in the EU are having to pay the VAT (and handling charge levied by their postal service which can be high) before the item is delivered rather than at the point of sale. After July 1st Etsy (amazon/ebay etc) will have to collect (and remit to the appropriate VAT authority) VAT on orders under 150 euros (the seller will have to remember to put Etsy’s vat details on the paper work showing that it was collected and by whom so the customer doesn’t get charged twice). I don’t know if Folksy will also be doing this as I believe there is a threshold that a company needs to be over before they have to do this and I don’t know if Folksy is anywhere near this threshold.
If an order is over 150 euro then duty will be payable and vat is payable on the duty so it will be paid by the buyer prior to delivery like it is at the moment rather than at the point of sale - the customs office would need to assess it for how much duty would be payable so it cannot be done in advance. This is comparable to the system that was brought in for us in the UK on Jan 1st when we lost the £15 exemption threshold and had to start paying VAT at point of purchase for overseas orders (but that meant that if the seller did their paper work correctly it no longer got held by Royal Mail until we paid the fee and we no longer had to pay the RM handling fee thus making it quicker (ahem) and possibly cheaper).
Since I only sell through marketplaces I haven’t looked into the implications of VAT collection and selling through your own website. This is definitely one of those occasions where letting the market place deal with it feels like a good thing.
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Thanks Sasha!
So (just to make sure I’ve got this straight in my head!), if a customer orders something under 150 euros, and if I’m selling the item via a marketplace that handles the VAT charges (and also makes them visible to the customer at the point of purchase), then that’s all good. Except that marketplace probably isn’t going to be Folksy sadly - so that would mean having to find another outlet. And probably, because it seems mighty confusing/expensive to handle this on your own website, the only way of selling overseas without the customer getting tangled with delays for their order and unknown expenses.
And if an order is over 150 euros, then no matter where they buy from, there will still be duty + VAT to pay, and that would be something that’s assessed by customs so would be something it’s only possible to warn the customer about (as in, “for orders over 150 euros you the customer will be liable to pay any duties etc etc”).
Have I understood right?!
I read on another group a seller basically saying you have 2 choices: you can continue to sell to EU customers, or you can stop. If you carry on you either register on the IOSS platform, or you don’t because that’s optional. If you don’t register you carry on sending orders, but items are going to be charged VAT, duties, processing fee, etc which will be an unknown and extra cost that the customer will have to pay (so all you can do is put a warning up to say that there will be extra charges, and you the customer are liable to them). If you do register then the VAT can be applied to the item at the point of sale so the customer can see and pay the charge, and then the VAT you collect is paid every month via the IOSS platform. BUT, in order to do that you need to employ an intermediary to administrate it for you as you can’t register directly if you’re in the UK - there has to be a third person in an EU country (so, probably Ireland so there’s no language barrier). Royal Mail are suggesting using Deloitte, but that costs at least £2k per year, or there’s Simply VAT who charge from £200 a month. It seems there is a company called Taxamo Assure that can also handle it for you, but you need to have a checkout system that can integrate with them - they charge a £2 flat rate per parcel.
The people I use for my website are, I think, creating the ability to collect VAT at the point of sale, BUT I would still need to submit the VAT I collect to IOSS via the intermediary, AND I’d have to have their shop/checkout package. I don’t think they’re planning to integrate Taxamo unfortunately (which feels like the most straight forward way of doing things).
Not sure if Folksy could integrate Taxamo…?? @folksycontent @Folksyadmin
It feels as though whatever option, wherever I sell, it’s going to either:
A: Cost me more to be able to still sell to customers in the EU (I’d have to either sell via another marketplace, pay the intermediary, upscale and move my website which would cost more plus I’d have to pay £2 for every EU parcel via Taxamo - although I guess that could be added to the overseas postage price). Off the top of my head, I would estimate that would cost me about another £300-500 a year - probably not worth doing given the amount of overseas orders I take.
B: Continue to sell overseas but emphasise to customers more strongly than I’m currently doing that they WILL be charged VAT and duties, that I can’t give them any guidance on what those charges will be (because every country is different, and it also depends on the value of the item - although from what I’ve seen, charges seem to come in at about £20-£30 as a minimum), and that their item is likely to take longer than the stated times because they’ll have to pass through customs - and then be prepared for grumpy customers.
C: Remove all overseas orders and just sell in the UK
I’m leaning towards C… but possibly trying B and seeing how it goes. Unless Folksy can come up with anything that could help us?
Erm, also (this is probably a very stupid question) but what about outside the EU - US, Australia etc. Does this all apply there too, or could I send to those countries in the same way I’ve also done?
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I can’t comment on the IOSS costs as I’ve not looked into them but apart from that yes we’re in agreement on the rest of it.
As for selling outside the EU - it depends on the country. For USA (my main overseas market) their threshold for both duty becoming payable and for having to collect/ remit sales tax at the point of purchase is high so customers can order on Folksy and not have to pay sales tax or duty (and we don’t have to do anything either).
For Canada the threshold is low (can$20) but their postal service handles the collecting of sales tax etc so we don’t have to do anything (other than warn people and apologise for the slow postal services and make sure we have invoices in triplicate on the outside of the package).
For Australia and New Zealand (I think) market places over a certain turn over value have to collect and remit the sales tax but if an item is sold through a smaller market place the postal service can deal with it (and the threshold at which the postal service will get involved is quite high so there is chance a package will get through without getting charged).
More countries are realising how much tax they were missing out on from (overseas) online shopping so are adjusting how they collect that tax so this is all subject to change…
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Sasha you’re a mine of information, thank you!
So it’s looking as though I can continue with sending to non-EU countries without too much worry - for the time being. That’s something at least. Like you, most of my overseas sales are US, although I do also send to Australia fairly often.
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It was bugging me that I couldn’t remember what the threshold was so I’ve done a bit of digging and I suspect that Folksy will have to register and handle this for us (threshold looks low). RM is saying there will be a box for us to enter the market place’s IOSS number in click and drop. If that turns out to be the case you might want to deactivate EU sales on your website and direct them to folksy instead so you don’t also have to register for your website sales.
(I might deactivate EU shipping for my items over ~£125 as they will end up being outside the IOSS system so I’d rather customers contact me before ordering so I can warn them about the fees)
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Hhm, that does sound like the best way to go - it would be really helpful if Folksy could let us know what they’re doing about registering for IOSS. I think we need to know their number to go on the Royal Mail label when we send items to the EU?
Anyone from @folksycontent @Folksyadmin @dougfolksy ??
Oh, and I’ve also read today that the info on the RM site is wrong: “You can register for IOSS yourself or choose one of our ‘assisted’ IOSS solutions” - everyone seems to be saying that you can’t actually register if you’re based in the UK, you have to use an intermediary 
UPDATE: I’ve just found this on the RM site:
If you are registering your business for IOSS yourself -
- Resister for IOSS in one of the EU countries (member states). Customers choose which country
- You will need to use an intermediary service based in the EU to do this
So yes, you definitely need to pay an intermediary if you’re in the UK.
Hi Sarah. It’s incredibly confusing for us too. We had a meeting with other organisations in the sector, including the Crafts Council, a couple of weeks ago, and this was one of the main issues raised. At the moment I’m afraid I don’t have any definite news for you as we’re still looking at what we (and our sellers) need to do, but we will let you know when we have an update. Sorry not to have anything more clear or helpful.
Thanks Camilla - it’s so annoying, spending so much time trying to work out what I should be doing, how best to work it out, when all I want to do is fulfil orders and get on with work! Not to mention the brain-ache!! Hope you manage to work out something soon, look forward to hearing what your plans will be 
UPDATE: We’ve just had another team meeting about this and we’re working on a solution, which will hopefully make it as easy as possible for you to continue selling to the EU after the changes come into effect on 1st July.
It’s complicated, as we’re a small company and the changes are not insignificant for us, but we’re figuring out what we need to do and promise we will have an official update for you next week.
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That sounds fantastic, can’t wait to see what you come up with, thanks Camilla!