Communicating with disabled customers

I remember a few years ago I was walking from walk to my evening class through Bedford Town Center and there was a elderly man fitting on the pavement two people stepped over him one complaining quite loundly abouts drunks.

I knew something was wrong and ran over to the elderly man he was having an epelptic fit (sorry about the spelling) he’d hurt himself while fitting with a nasty gash on his head. Mobile phones weren’t available so I shouted for someone to call an ambulance. At first everyone ignored me. Then finally another fellow student from my evening class came up and ran to the phone box for me.

When the guy came around he was very dazzed, confused and was asking for his stick. I didn’t see any stick at first and I noticed he didn’t seem to be able to focus. The elderly guy not only was epelictic he was blind.

By the time the ambulance arrived my fellow student has returned back from the phone box and he found the guys white stick it had rolled under a bench. The ambulance took him to hospital to as he did substance a concussion from the fall due to the fit.

I can’t believe that two people just stepped over him.

Absolutely not, Margaret! Why should anyone criticise you for using the disabled bay, when you are carrying a disabled passenger who, presumably, can’t drive himself? Even if he could, the fact is that he’s a passenger in someone else’s car and it is his right to use his blue badge parking permit. My comment (above yours) about my error, was designed to point out that we all make mistakes - me included - but that in no way alters the needs or rights of those who have a blue badge. I drive my mother wherever she needs to go and we park in disabled bays, or on yellow lines (safely) if necessary, as she can not walk more than a few yards. We use her blue badge in my car. That is perfectly ok and legal.
Where it’s not alright, of course, is if you are not carrying a disabled passenger (or coming to collect them from somewhere), but only making use of their permit for your own benefit. I’m sure you don’t do that, so don’t worry. :slight_smile:

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Didn’t know you lived in Bedford, Eileen - you’re just down the road from me!

There have been reports in the papers, over the years, of people ignoring injured or ill people lying on the ground. They assume (I suppose), that the person is drunk and they’re afraid to get involved. It’s a shame, but there we are.
So glad you were able to help. Shame to those who wouldn’t help him - or you!

Lizzie

Lizzie@lizziemade I no longer live in Bedford I’m move further south down in Surrey now.

I have read this topic with great interest. I used to work as a carer and one lady I used to see was blind through maccular degeneration. I used to take her shopping and she was amazing. She trusted me to describe colours and fabrics and would choose her clothes on how I described them. We were once in our local wool shop and because she was in her chair, the lady who served us asked me all the questions, took my ladiys money from her and gave ME the change! She was quite upset. To top it off, we then went to the supermarket and the lady on the checkout didn’t think my lady could pay with a card because she couldn’t see the numbers on the chip and pin machine. I had to explain that it was perfectly legal for her to sign the docket - as we all did in the good old days. What a fuss. I really do feel for people who have this day in and day out.

I also have a friend who holds a blue badge. She has been ill for some time and is now, slowly getting much better. She still has the right to use her badge as she has days where she can’t drive and can’t walk far, so I drive those days. Anyway, we had gone to a local spa - a birthday treat, using the pool and planning to enjoy the day by having a relaxing cuppa. We were accosted - no other word for it - by a very able bodied older lady who berated us for parking in the disabled space, despite displaying her blue badge. She claimed she was far more in need of it then my friend as she had a sore knee, and she thought she didn’t even look ill and then was rude enough to ask what on earth was the matter with her anyway! We were shocked and our lack of any real response to her questions made her feel a fool. It really spoilt our day.

Jacqueline x

Lizzie, I am shocked, but not surprised at your stories. To be legally disabled one needs to have a physical or mental impairment, and that impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

“long-term” usually means in excess of a year, but some disability conditions automatically fall under the definition from point of diagnosis, eg cancer, HIV, etc.

The hearing-impaired student should take the matter up further, and if no joy, contact the ECHR or RNID.
I am saddened regarding the car-park incident. This is all about educating the public on disabled issues.

Note that it is generally OK to use a wheelchair-accessible toilet, even if the person is not disabled, unless there is a clear written policy by management, which says otherwise on the premises. Policies vary.

Clearly, one should always give priority to disabled, mobility-impaired users, as they have much less of a choice of toilets available.

Most people are not aware that “baby-change” tables are frowned upon in the relevant British Standard, for wheelchair-accessible "( ie 'disabled’) toilets, and shouldn’t be included generally.

However, even I have had to design them in sometimes , as there simply was no space elsewhere.

You have raised an excellent point on pre-judging in situations. I too, nearly came unstuck on one or two occasions, so one has to be tolerant and careful.
Ron

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In my opinion there is no need for “extra” rules to deal with certain people, normal rules of politeness still apply.
Treating a wheelchair user or someone who is just short as if they were children is rude. We tend to kneel down to speak with children, not with adults. That is the reason why you shouldn’t do it to an adult.
Of course you also don’t want to / shouldn’t tower over people that is just as rude. But normally there is not new set of rules required to treat wheelchair users politely!
To not “tower” over someone, it suffices to keep a comfortable distance at which you can look each other in the eyes. If the person you are talking to is a child, you can get down, now matter whether they are in a wheelchair or on a bike, and if you want to talk to someone in a wheelchair for a longer time, just get yourself a chair. Would you kneel down to talk to someone who is taking a rest on a chair?!

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Hike,
In principle, you are correct, a lot is about common-sense.

However, when dealing with persons with a degree of hearing-impairment, it is good practice to position yourself so they can see your lips to easily lip-read. This applies as much to shops, restaurant situations and similar.

You would be surprised as to how many people lip-read, even people without hearing-impairment.

I learnt to communicate with a deaf architect and another hard-of-hearing professional, who I had frequent contact with as a work colleague, and always positioned ourselves so there was good lighting on our faces when speaking with them.

If crafters at stalls can afford a portable hearing-loop, with an ear-symbol, then that is great. (About £140 or so) . If not, then being aware of hearing-impaired and visually-impaired people is as important, if not more so, and adapting to provide a service that you would expect as a customer.

Also, ensuring wheelchair-users, and people of small-stature can access at least some of the goods on your stall at their level, ( having regard to preventing children messing up your display ! ).
Ron

Oh dear this is so tricky - yes I would kneel down to speak to someone who is taking a rest on a chair, otherwise I’d have difficulty hearing them, especially when there is a lot of background noise. Perhaps I should explain the reason why I would kneel, I certainly don’t want to be offending anyone.

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Hilke@buchertiger supplies

It is not always possible to sit down when outside when with someone who’s in wheelchair say at a pub.

The chairs may be all taken and you are left with your group standing while my adult daughter is siting in her chair. That is when it becomes horride for her as all her friends are towering above her in a crowd situation so she’s forced to crank her neck up to be able to join in the conversation. Her friends are great they are aware she gets neck pains due to it and try hard to keep her involved by bending at the knees to directly speak to her. Otherwise as said she just gives up and sits looking at her hands with her head down not enjoying herself.

It’s about making sure no matter what the disability you as the able bodied are aware and doing your uttermost to not exclude the person with a disability.

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Ron, I completely agree with what you write.
It is just that recently I came across a lot of advice for how to treat people with this or that disability, and I am annoyed by reading through lists of advices. The contribution above “I read recently you shouldn’t bend down to wheelchair users” sounded like a comment from someone who as been though some of those lists. These “advice columns” give the impression, as if there was a different species of humans living among us to which other rules of politeness applied. And this seems to raise the anxiety-level for those who are not daily in such a situation more than necessary. As if you would need to know a whole book of rules before you can interact with wheelchair users without offending them.

Other than it might sound from what I said up until here, I am all for guarded language, and for well manners. And I believe in discussing how we treat specific groups. (Personally I have especially been preaching about how many speak to and with women.)
I think it is very important to choose the right words. How we speak just as much as what we say conveys a lot about how we relate to the one we are talking to. I just find it important to stress that the same rules of politeness exist, rather than a new set of rules.

We all know that, when our friend comes visiting and tells us: I asked for the way, and then that guy treated me like a child!, That this is not a compliment. Although that guy might have tried to be really nice and was nothing but well-meaning.

Rendering one’s shop or booth accessible to everyone, is important for everyone. And it should be clear, that it is about treating every visitor as a possible customer who might be important for our business. It is about believing that someone who is speaking slurry and strained might still bring in the big gig for your shop. It is not about being nice to this poor disabled guy whose feelings we do not want to hurt. I do not want to say that this is what you are saying. But more often than such suggestions come across like that.

Oh, how I have been annoyed by the wheelchair access that is located at the back-/delivery-entrance and leads through piles of storage. Yes, such access is better than no acceess. but it reveals that whoever decided against rebuilding the main entrance though they need not impress someone who cannot walk stairs… But they might one day. Who knows, maybe the Queen will one day come on a surprise visit in a wheelcair, tired from a long day standing :slight_smile:

@EilensCraftStudio

Eileen, you pretty much prove my point. Maybe I was not clear enough.

I believe that the rule “do not bend down to wheelchair users” does apply in the following situation and was meant for that situation.

Imagine a street seller. Let us say he has a small table with bracelets and is standing in front. He might bend down to a child to ask him or her what she wants to buy. His body language expresses friendliness, that maybe he thinks his customer is cute, and he wants to be friendly. Some people behave the same way toward short people or people in a wheelchair. Although it is meant to be nice, it is just inappropriate to treat adults like children. Maybe they even pitch their voice? - I doubt that your daughter would like that.

The situation you descibe is completely different. For longer conversations we want to be more or less level, we all know that, we do not need rules for it. And how we achieve it (kneeling down, sitting somewhere, bending down), and what is viewed as appropriate will vary with the specific situation and how familiar the people participating in the conversation are with each other.

@Stephanie from StephanieGuy
If you are that kind of person, you might get away with it. I saw nurses bend down to patients on a chair, then their body language expresses care. I would be surprised if they did it while answering the time to someone sitting on a bench at a bus stop. But it really depends on how people interact with each other. Mututal respect is what is important. Not some stupid rule. That was my point.

Hike, on your last paragraph, I will make the point that if a ‘wheelchair-accessible’ entrance is at the back of a building where everyone else can enter through the front, it can, in some circumstances, be considered discriminatory, and contrary to disability discrimination law, ie The Equality Act 2010, and the associated Regulations and codes of practice.

There is a requirement for providers of services to make “reasonable adjustments” to premises, policies, criteria in managing and delivering that service.

I think it was Royal Bank of Scotland that lost an important case some years ago on a bank, which also happened to be a listed building, and had steps and no access for wheelchair-users.

RBS employed lots of high-flying lawyers, but still lost the case, and were instructed by the judge to make physical changes to their premises so that a young , disabled, man could enter the bank by the front , access an interview room, and use it like everyone else.

So, even listed buildings are not exempt from the law, but there has to be sensitivity in making those alterations on listed buildings.

Crafters who sell goods also need to sometimes make ‘reasonable adjustments’, so that disabled people can have access to their goods/services, but not necessarily always physical adjustments. (ie could be large print text info on products, etc)

Finally, the adjustments need to be proportionate to the service offered. ‘M&S’ and ‘John Lewis’ have to make more substantial reasonable adjustments than most of the crafters on ‘Folksy’, as they have a lot more resources.

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Hilke, last year a lady I follow on Facebook had to give up her stall at a craft fair, because (even though she had notified them in advance that she needed a ground floor space and wheelchair access), they had failed to provide any way for her to get herself, or her stuff into the building. The stall was placed in a corner, where it was difficult for her to access and she had to fight her way through “piles of storage”, just to get inside and find where they had put her. She was desperately upset, as the staff were rude and unhelpful - nobody seemed interested or to want to help her with access etc. She went home in tears and lost her table fee, as well as any potential profits. She’d worked really hard to make stock for her stall - and it all ended in tears. We were all so upset for her.

People can be really thoughtless and stupid. It really is, sometimes, as if “people” regard “the disabled” (especially wheelchair users, those with mobility problems, sight problems etc), as a seperate species. They’d probably treat animals with more consideration.

As you said, it’s plain common sense and good manners; sadly there are quite a lot of people who seem lacking in either of these.

Lizzie, a sad story.
Please be careful with “mobility problems” and “sight problems”.
That implies or could imply, the person with a disability is imperfect, and that can be quite hurtful for some.

One should refer to “mobility-impairment”, "vision-impairment / or ‘vision-impaired person’ and “hearing -impairment / or hearing-impaired person”

If I didn’t have a career in access and inclusive-design, I would not have known the terminology myself. It’s a real minefield.

Ron

Frankly Ron, If someone called my mother “visually impaired” or “mobility impaired” she would probably brain them!

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For years I worked with a great woman who would say “I’m blind honey, does what it says on the tin” and “I’ll race you across this office with the lights off and still kick your ass”

From reading through all the posts, working in nursing homes years ago and just in bog standard every day offices and settings since in my opinion it’s never a good idea to try and tar everyone in a perceived group (usually perceived by someone not in said group) with the same brush, no matter how good the intentions.

Disability/issues/problems/impairments are all just a matter of opinion and as Grace pointed out, time of the day because I really would have broke something getting across that office in the dark.

If in doubt ask the person you’re talking to and if you don’t know them well enough for that just treat them the same way you would like to be treated or the same way you’d treat anyone else. One decent human being will have a hard time upsetting or offending another decent human being.

Having said that though there will always be people who get out of bed in the morning to be offended, even if they have to be offended on behalf of someone they don’t even know to get their fix. You can’t make those people happy, they don’t want to be happy and you’ll never be able to do enough well enough to make them happy so don’t break your back over it.

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Please be aware that many disabled people have already had an input and significant influence in contributing to how they, or their group, would wish to be referred to. ie having regard to their disability. That has been reflected in many publications, articles, seminars, working groups, and codes of practice.

Some, of course, don’t care at all, but others are acutely sensitive on this subject.

Part of the reason why, (relatively), new phrases, references, and practices have been introduced, is to educate people out there who sometimes have a very distorted and / or prejudiced view of disability and disabled people.

Indeed, most people who use uncaring words, text or phrases don’t do it purposefully, but through ignorance and lack of understanding.

Cases on employment discrimination can result with employers being horrified that they were considered as discriminating against disabled staff or others. That, in most cases, was not their intention, but they never adapted in the workplace, and so fell foul of the law.

This is a complex subject.

Respect for each other is a good start, but targeted education is also essential. In particular, personal contact and interaction with as many types/groups of disabled persons to really understand their needs, and help make the environment more inclusive.

There is a lot published on this and a good starting point is the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which has a lot of guidance and also both statutory and non-statutory codes of practice.
(Even for small businesses on disability law ! )

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/

Oh I’m quite well aware. When I said office settings, I should have been clearer and said firms of solicitors, I was a paralegal for over 12 years and cut my teeth on discrimination cases and later on disease claims and closed head injury claims so for my part I have met a lot of people with a variety of disabilities, closed head injury is a nasty, indiscriminate, almost ironic bitch, trust me, “foodie are you, see how you get on with no sense of taste or smell”, “oh you like to dance do you …” it’s a hard thing to have something snatched away.

So yes I’m also well aware of the publications and pamphlets and ‘helpful’ information and the ever changing list of terminology that some feel is necessary when discussing people with disabilities … but oddly not any other group of people. It’s that need for appropriate terms that irks me, we’re all just a bunch of people, capable of some things but not others, muddling along and doing the best we can.

The simple fact is that if a person using a wheelchair can’t access a building or an area within a building then neither can parent with a buggy. Nobody runs seminars for the parent or tries to find another name other than parent, even though they’re just as excluded.

It wasn’t even a month ago I stood in the middle of an aisle in tesco with a man in a wheelchair, the pair of us in stitches because while I’d been bent over he had asked me for something off the top shelf … all 5.2" and naff all use for high things that is me. Nope I can’t get round a supermarket without help either:)

I suppose my point is that it’s just this need for terms or the misguided notion that we the able (there really is a need for a universally sarcastic font here) are trying to make the world a better place for the less able … and we’re trying to be as sensitive as possible about it by using floaty names and terms that only succeed in causing even more confusion about something that really should and could be quite simple.

Simply put, we all benefit from better design and the implementation of basic common sense and good manners.

Start by asking a person their name, the one they were given and using that instead of a name that a group of people likely agreed to be the best of a bad bunch, rather than good because none of them are good, that’s why they change and are “improved” so frequently.

I’m sorry but the need for terminology will always be something that I find a bit mad and pointless, and oddly doing more harm than good which obviously isn’t the intention. Just as an example I regularly see a queue for the wheelchair accessible toilet that goes something like, mother with young son, father with young daughter, woman with trolley full of paid for shopping, man in wheelchair, woman with pram … you get the picture. Now if it was a disabled toilet rather than a toilet big enough for a wheelchair/trolley/buggy, then the man in the wheelchair wouldn’t have to queue. It’s hard explaining myself in print, I suppose all I’m really trying to say is that you can exclude people which is obviously wrong and a bad thing, you can give them the things they need in order to use the space the same as everyone else but you need to be very direct about who those additional facilities are for which obviously draws attention and highlights the disability or you can be completely inclusive which, going by the example I’ve given seems to be a step back, inclusive rather than helpful.

Any terminology used needs to be very very clear, no fuzzy easily misinterpreted edges and if the public as a whole need to be educated in what the terminology means then it isn’t clear, plain and simple. At the minute we seem to be floating toward a situation where we have a disabled toilet but we won’t call it a disabled toilet, we’ll call it a wheelchair accessible toilet so that nobody gets offended and then we’ll send out a load of pamphlets educating the masses that the disabled toilet that isn’t called a disabled toilet shouldn’t be used by anyone who isn’t disabled … it’s so british, so avoiding the elephant in the room and frankly so condescending and derogatory that anyone who thinks that changing the names and then teaching everyone that they’re just new shinier versions of the old names is a good idea needs a good shake.

Lastly though, one thing every solicitor I’ve known would agree on is that all of those unintentional discrimination claims would disappear if people just spoke to each other a bit more. Simply piping up “look I’m lost here, tell me what you need/want and we’ll sort it out” or “listen I know you’re trying your best but it would really help me/I’d really appreciate it if …” would end sooo many problems that all the literature in the world can’t help.

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Brilliant post Leanne, couldn’t agree more!

Every person is an individual with different abilities/impairment of abilities so I don’t see the need for a collective term for one particular group of people.

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