Folksy Ltd

Paypal strikes again!


(Limelightproducts) #1

Hi there this is my first post as I’m new . I just wondered where we are all going to sell our goods now that Paypal has introduced new, illegal terms and conditions , which, as folksy use mainly paypal we will all have to sign up to. I mean of course the 180 day money back guarantee. This includes all items including personnalised, bespoke or any other special order. So someone could order from you then in 180 days , 6months time decide they don’t want it and paypal will refund them from your account, no questions asked just give them the money. Well I can’t leave funds in my account for six months just in case some fraudster wants their money back. The long distance selling laws won’t count , paypal have made their own up . I also sell on ebay so that site will be no good now either. Just wondered if you had all signed your new agreements with paypal.


(Jo Sara) #2

Hi,

Have you got a link to this info? I can’t seem to find it anywhere.

As far as I know, bespoke items are exempted from cancellation and could only be returned if faulty, and normal sales can be returned as faulty up to 6 months from the sale date (180 days).

I don’t think I’ve seen anything from Paypal saying they’ll refund no questions asked. The only thing I’ve seen recenlty is they’ve introduced a new 14 day pay after delivery scheme to help customer feel more secure about buying online.

Jo


(Minerva) #3

I would be very concerned if PP can refund a customer without asking me. I thought the 180 days thing was about the increased length of time a UK customer can ask for a refund.

Please send us the link to see…maybe we missed that.


(Eileens Craft Studio) #4

I would hope if someone raises a case with paypal we’d be notified so we can answer it.

As it is if someone pays via their credit card through paypal they can do a charge back via their credit card at any point and end up with the item and their money back. The seller will also be charged a fee by the credit card company.


(Limelightproducts) #5

" Do sellers of personalized goods have any sympathy when the system disregards the distance selling regulations and effectively forces them to accept returns for items which cannot be sold again?

Now you will be able to add sellers of personalized or custom goods."

I don’t think the mods would let me paste all this conversation cos it’s from the ebay forum but here is a snippit by a power seller who I assume knows what she is talking about .


(Liz Clark) #6

I got sent this by Paypal. Is this what you mean?


(Helen Smith) #7

I think it’s always advisable to read the changes rather than listen to forum gossip. This is what is says on my page…

13.4 Conditions for reimbursement
You may be reimbursed under PayPal Buyer Protection for a problem with a purchase only if all of the following requirements are met:
Your purchase is an eligible purchase. Purchases of most goods and services are eligible, except for purchases of the following

  • real estate (including, without limitation, residential property);
  • businesses (including, without limitation, any items or services forming part of a business or corporate acquisition);
  • vehicles (including, without limitation, motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats);
  • custom made items;

etc etc

And, maybe I’ve been lucky, but I have never felt that someone has deliberately set out to defraud me. That’s not to say I haven’t had problems, parcels have got lost and/or damaged but my buyers have all been lovely people. In fact I have had more bad experiences buying than selling even though I do a lot more selling than buying, and I have been glad to be on the buyers end of Paypal’s policies. I think in these days of international commerce the increase in the time you have to lodge a dispute is a good thing.


(Marg) #8

I think that if paypal brings in the 180 days return then quite a few people will be worried. Say its a cushion cover someone has bought, had it for six months and then wants to send it back. What state will it be in when it is returned. Not in a saleable condition.
We need more clarification on this as lots of online sites use paypal as their payment method for buyers, surely all those sites will not be subject to a 180 days return policy. Marg. x


(Limelightproducts) #9

Yes that’s it Bigbird

PayPal Buyer Protection

With effect from a date to be confirmed by PayPal in due course (falling on or after the Effective Date), section 13 will be amended to make several improvements to the PayPal Buyer Protection policy. The amendments will:

improve the conditions of reimbursement under PayPal Buyer Protection for PayPal users registered as UK residents by:
    increasing the time allowed for buyers to raise a Dispute from 45 days to 180 days from the date on which payment was made; and

(René Trewern) #10

Raising a dispute does not mean they will get a refund with no questions asked


(Limelightproducts) #11

That’s what I was thinking Dawitchi but having read a lot of ebay posts Paypal find in favour of the buyer in most cases.


(Jo Sara) #12

I still don’t get it. The Sale of Goods Act has always given customers 180 days to return goods not fit for purpose. I haven’t read the case of the cushion cover, but if it’s fallen apart after 6 months, I suppose it’s fair enough that the person that bought it thinks that’s not a reasonable time for that to happen in. If it’s that they’re trying to return it because they’re changing their living room scheme then that’s another matter.

I agree with Helen. Most people who buy from a craft site, or buy handmade are very nice people. If they really wanted they could have been doing this ‘it’s not fit for purpose’ scam for years. The Sale Of Goods Act has been in since 1979.

Jo


(Leanne Woods) #13

We all already offer a six month returns policy by selling through folksy as it is, it’s a site wide policy and items sold on the site must still be fit for purpose six months later, it protects buyers should they buy something and it falls apart after a few uses but after paypal’s old 45 day limit. It sounds like paypal are just bringing their own policies up to scratch with what’s required in the UK already. I would imagine even personalised items should be fit for purpose and made to last. Personalising items only effects returns if a buyer changes their mind under the dsrs but it isn’t a get out of jail free card when faults come into it.


(Liz Dyson) #14

I have’t seen anything from PayPal about this, I’ll have to take a peek and see what I can find. My main gripe with them at the moment is that the postage system has not been working properly since at least 9th March (when I noticed) and that’s a real pain in the bum for me. Ho hum.

Liz
x


(Margaret Jackson) #15

I would expect anything I bought from Folksy or anywhere else not to fall apart after only 6 months! Surely anyone who tried to claim would have to show evidence of it being not fit for purpose or whatever. I think most people who buy handmade aren’t fraudsters, and if you start to think of customers as being potential fraudsters it’s not a good mindset to have! I can’t see much of a problem with this and agree with Leanne.


(Joy Salt) #16

I would be amazed if this has any effect on any of us.

After all how many cases of people asking for refunds do you actually know, first hand that is, not rumour.


(Eileens Craft Studio) #17

Margaret if any thing I sold fall apart in such a short time I’d be horrified unless of course they were using it for some other purpose than what the item was intended for.


(Limelightproducts) #18

From what I read on Ebay it’s not a case of being fit for purpose or something falling apart it seems they can ask for their money back just because they don’t want it anymore. If it’s broken then yes the sale of goods act does apply but we are talking just not want it anymore.


(Eileens Craft Studio) #19

This has already happened a few time it appears over on the ‘Darkside’ there have been threads about it on their forum.

I mean not just 6 months but up to 2 years later asking to return an item as they didn’t want it any more and wanted a refund. Didn’t mean they got what they wanted but some people clearly have a load of cheek to even ask.


(Brenda Cumming) #20

I try never to worry about these things. I have always found that my customers are lovely people and have never had any problems.